Talk:Jacquard machine

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This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

Michael Hickins (January 24, 2017). "The 4 Greatest Startups Of All Time". Forbes. Retrieved January 25, 2017. The Jacquard loom is "a mechanical loom that uses pasteboard cards with punched holes, each card corresponding to one row of the design. Multiple rows of holes are punched in the cards and the many cards that compose the design of the textile are strung together in order," according to Wikipedia.

Images

I've tidied up the image positioning, which I think makes it look better. The only problem might be the appearance on smaller monitors. If anyone has a problem, then we'll need to have a re-think. I was going to sacrifice one of the images, but I thought they were brilliant, so I've left them all. Noisy | Talk 10:03, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You might like to have another look as if the righthand picture is located to its left then the words 'The term...' are to the right of the right hand picture (RHP). If the RHP is moved to the right the words 'The term...' end up being between the pictures. I have no idea how to correct this typographical error. Over to you!

Mails?

The new comment added to one of the illustrations uses the term mails. What does this mean? Noisy | Talk 10:16, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

If anyone is going to write about technical stuff in a specific industry I believe it is important that they use the correct terms - either through personal knowledge or by looking them up!

The term 'mail' in a jacquard loom is the piece of long metal through which a warp yarn is threaded. The weight is attached to the bottom of the mail and the harness to the top of the mail. The harness goes through the comber board which allows the relative positions of the individual parts of the harness to be maintained. The picture is NOT of the hooks as originally and incorrectly entitled. The hooks cannot even be seen in that picture!

I would care to guess that the term 'mail' came from the use of one or more very small metal rings instead of a thin piece of metal. The small rings, I suppose were like the rings used in chain 'mail'. However this is just supposition on my part.

Attached below the mail is a long thin weight called a "ling" which holds the harness down. This weight allows the harness to drop quickly so weaving can continue at speed.

What is it?

I have been embroidering for a couple of years. I have never heard of jacquard weaving. Is this the process in which the logo shirt tags are weaved or lanyards or is it weaving with an impression with the same color as the reast of the fiber? I always looked at it as small embroidery or tight weave embroidery.

this is the process of using a machine to do the weaving, and index-like cards are used to tell the loom which threads to use. Kingturtle 23:02, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting! Thanks

Useful, interesting, like the photos. I referenced this page re "algorithm". wvbaileyWvbailey 22:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

punch cards?

Are punch card controlled machines still in commercial use? I suspect so, since they might be simpler to maintain than electronic computerized versions. But it would be good if the article said, one way or the other, if anyone knows for sure. 69.87.200.111 01:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They are still used in the developing world. They have nearly disappeared in the US. I have seen them sitting in mills in the US, but can't guarantee they are being used. Creating those punch card sets is time consuming and expensive compared to the electronic system.

I have seen the punch cards being used in the US and overseas in Belgium. They are still in existance and used an awefull lot. Most people use them

Baby wraps made by Didymos.de use a Jacquard process; I don't know whether they use the punch card machines or not, but the wraps are beautiful. You can see one of their looms here: http://www.didymos.de/english/html/jacquardwebstuhl.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.102.114 (talk) 21:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This machines are in mainstream usage in France, they call them "leavers" and the whole lace industry depends on them. Some companies have managed to include electronic controllers on them, and others still work with thousands of punched cards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.77.96.100 (talk) 15:46, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that some of the weavers in Assam still use the Jacquard loom even today. If I find any news reports etc I will try to add that reference here as well -Deepraj | Talk 17:19, 11 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am watching an episode of How It's Made right now (on making lace, not sure of episode number) aired in 2013 with a Jacquard headed loom (at least, looked like a whole factory) working and in which the punch card system is described in detail. No mention is made of any of the looms being replaced with CNC. Shoobe01 (talk) 21:09, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The most recently retired traditional punch card Jacquard loom I am aware of in the United Kingdom was in commercial use until about 2001, making the rear pull tabs for Doc Martens boots. It can now be viewed in the Macclesfield Silk Museum. There are a number of functional Jacquard hand looms in the adjacent Paradise Mill, which can been seen demonstrated but are no longer in commercial production. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.140.96.21 (talk) 10:10, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Invention year?

Joseph Marie Jacquard mentions this invention as created in 1804-1805. In this article it mentions it in 1801, as well as in Computer. Not sure what to do with it. --RazorICE 07:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

YES, PUNCH CARDS ARE FOUND ALL OVER IN THIS INDUSTRY STILL BEING USED

Punch cards are hardly used anymore - the electronic Jacquard machines are on the market for over 10 years now and cards are a huge cost factor. They are still being used in specialty weaving (money not being a big factor there with huge profit margins) and people that took advantage of the near destruction of the US textile industry and picked up used machinery for next to nothing.

Don't see what the ad for Dornier has to do with Jacquard weaving.

First machine to use punched cards?

This article states in the section Importance to computing that the Jacquard loom was the first machine to use punched cards to control a sequence of operations. However, according to the articles Basile Bouchon and Joseph Marie Jacquard such cards were already used in 1728 by Falcon's improvement to Bouchon's invention, and Jacquard returned to that earlier approach. --Lambiam 22:19, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree this article over- or mis-states the history. I think perhaps simply changing the sentence in the article to "The Jacquard loom was the first commercially-successful machine to use punched cards to control a sequence of operations." and then maybe follow up with some links to the predecessors and a reference to them still being in some use. Not changing it as I am not sure everyone agrees that the history is correct. Shoobe01 (talk) 21:10, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to Basile Bouchon, while Falcon's loom did use punched cards, it required an operator to operate them. Hence Jacquard loom would still be the first machine "to use punched cards to control a sequence of operations", as opposed to Falcon's loom where the operator used punched cards to control a sequence of operations. Nikola (talk) 12:24, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

References

Reference #2 - "Fabric Glossary". Retrieved 2008-11-21. - is a dead link.

Reference #3 - The London journal of arts and sciences (and repertory of patent inventions). June 1, 1866. p. 334. - does not refer to the subject. It is a patent someone else received for their changes to the jacquard loom. I'm new here :) so do I just change it, or do I let the original author do it? Thanks for your patience! AmySmiles (talk) 20:37, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like it and and will feel at home here. To answer your question: if you feel you can improve the article, please do so. Please don't wait for the original author (who may sometimes be hard to identify, or who else may have become inactive). If the issue is likely to be contentious, it may be good idea to discuss it first on the talk page, but in general, and particularly if it is uncontroversial like fixing a broken reference, just be bold and go ahead. --Lambiam 22:23, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"hello, world" used by Jacquard

On several sites of the Internet, there's the reference «1801 - Joseph Marie Jacquard uses punch cards to instruct a loom to weave "hello, world" into a tapestry.». Does someone has a source to it? If yes, it would be great to have it in the Article, as well as in the Hello_world_program. Martin mahal Halter (talk) 08:34, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

let us know when you find a citation. Any truth to the alternate story, that he wove "whoooo...oooosh" into a long scarf? 96.246.172.37 (talk) 00:31, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction: Working demonstration

The introductory text states that "Live displays of a Jacquard loom are available at a few private museums around Lyon." This should be supplemented to say that a live display of a working Jacquard loom can be seen at the Maison des Canuts in Lyon (http://maisondescanuts.com/). I couldn't figure out how to edit the introductory text, though. 147.126.10.122 (talk) 15:01, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

photo throws

Photo throws are commonly available at "reasonable" prices ($60 -- $150). A rug or blanket can be woven with a color image, presumably under full computer control. This article (and related articles) ought to discuss how these are made. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 18:15, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Some rudimentary searching finds a lot of knitted throws, but none that are woven. Given the ease of multi-colour knitting and the difficult of weaving with many colours, this isn't surprising. So they aren't woven and they aren't woven on Jacquard looms. They might gain a mention as "The notion of automatically controlled coloured textiles eventually gave rise to on-demand one-off knitting from photographs.", but that's about as far as it goes. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:42, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the prompt response. I have two of these, and they look nothing like knitting. The threads are intertwined as warp and woof, and dangle from the top, bottom, and sides. I'll call one of the manufacturers tomorrow morning and get an "official" explanation. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 20:53, 7 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I just spoke with "Mike" at Manual Woodworkers and Weavers in North Carolina. He agrees that, although weaving and knitting are both methods for intertwining thread or yarn, what they (and other companies) produce is a woven fabric -- it is not knitting in the common meaning of the word. I'm thinking about adding an example, showing the original photo and its woven counterpart. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 14:40, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Merger proposal

The two articles Jacquard loom and Jacquard weaving have very similar topics and content. It would make sense to merge them. User:Clean Copy (talk)

I agree.

The merged article should be Jacquard loom rather its application ('weaving') since the notability of the topic is Jacquard's conceptual leap and its importance to the history of automation and computing.

As it has been a month since you proposed it with no dissent in the meantime, I suggest that you wp:be bold and just do it. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 10:15, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@John Maynard Friedman and Clean Copy: Merged per above discussion. It's a bit rough. The article needs a proofread and edit for flow. The Transhumanist 09:31, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it reads rather well. I've made a couple of minor changes. But I'm stumped by this sentence, it seems short of a key word or words somewhere? or started with one idea and morphed into another?:For example, they are an ideal tool to increase the ability and stretch the versatility of the niche linen Jacquard weavers who remain active in Europe and the West, while most of the large batch commodity weaving has moved to low cost areas. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 14:36, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Principle of operation

I came to this article with background knowledge only and could not understand the explanation. I've managed to find a diagram of the principle and have re-written the first couple of sentences to reference the diagram and explain how it works. To get the diagram to align I've had to move the illustrations around. I didn't realise at first that the gallery was a slideshow, so if it confused me I'm sure it must have confused others. I've therefore expanded the gallery to be a simple one which readers can click upon. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 19:08, 15 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jacquard machines in the Han Dynasty of China (200 BC-200 AD)?

Apparently Jacquard machines existed in the Han Dynasty of China, though this is not mentioned in the current version of the article. There are various articles discussing a recent archaeological excavation in Chengdu, Sichuan. Source 76.190.208.61 (talk) 19:31, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for this suggestion. Unfortunately the text is far too generic to use as a citation. One line saying that "4 Jacquard looms were discovered" is just a teaser, we would need at least a reliable specialist publication but an article in a peer reviewed journal would be better. Chinese silk weaving was the envy of the Western World at that time and for centuries afterwards - but of course was assumed to demonstrate exceptional hand-weaving skill since automation was unknown. So the article would be greatly improved if reliably sourced material can identified that attests to it. Would you like to develop some text? (Don't worry about getting Wikipedia's 'house style' right, anybody can fix that.) --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 22:25, 6 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]